並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E4%B8%8D%E5%B0%88%E6%A5%AD%E5%AD%B8%E8%AA%AA-%E6%96%87%E5%8C%96%E5%A4%A7%E5%AD%B8%E5%BB%A3%E5%91%8A%E5%AD%B8%E7%B3%BB-ESsYR9TN2gV/