並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep57-%E4%BA%BA%E9%A1%9E%E5%9C%96-%E7%94%9F%E7%94%A2%E8%80%85-%E5%92%8C-%E6%8A%95%E5%B0%84%E8%80%85-%E7%9A%84%E7%9B%B8%E8%99%95%E4%B9%8B%E9%81%93/id1486000310?i=1000534194240