並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-177-%E5%9C%8B%E9%98%B2%E5%A4%A7%E5%AD%B8%E5%A5%B3%E5%AD%B8%E7%94%9F%E8%A6%96%E8%A8%8A%E4%B8%8A%E8%AA%B2%E8%88%87%E4%BA%BA%E9%80%A3%E7%B5%90-%E6%B4%BB%E6%98%A5%E5%AE%AE%E5%BD%B1%E5%83%8F%E5%A4%96%E6%B4%A9-%E5%90%8C%E5%AD%B8%E5%85%A8%E7%9C%8B%E5%85%89-person-to-person/id1529055817?i=1000530280783