並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep69-%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82-%E4%B8%80%E5%BC%B5%E8%BF%91%E8%90%AC%E5%85%83%E7%9A%84%E7%9F%B3%E5%A2%A8%E7%83%AF%E6%A3%89%E8%A2%AB-%E5%88%B0%E5%BA%95%E5%9C%A8%E8%B3%A3%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC/id1536242998?i=1000504907514