並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep40-%E5%BE%9E%E8%B3%87%E7%AE%A1%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%B0%E5%8F%B0%E5%A4%A7%E8%B2%A1%E9%87%91%E6%89%80-%E6%8A%8A%E4%B8%8D%E5%96%9C%E6%AD%A1%E7%9A%84%E8%AE%8A%E6%88%90-%E7%AC%AC%E4%BA%8C%E5%B0%88%E9%95%B7/id1546317854?i=1000515741870