並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep03-%E9%AB%98%E5%AD%B8%E6%AD%B7%E5%A5%B3%E6%80%A7%E7%9A%84%E7%85%A9%E6%83%B1%E8%88%87%E6%9C%AA%E4%BE%86/id1522808228?i=1000487398300