並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-451-%E5%A5%B9%E5%B9%B3%E5%B8%B8%E6%A8%A3%E6%A8%A3%E5%A5%BD-%E7%B6%93%E5%89%8D%E7%B6%93%E6%9C%9F%E5%BE%88%E9%9B%A3%E6%90%9E-ft-%E9%AB%98%E9%9B%84%E5%9B%9B%E5%AD%A3%E5%8F%B0%E5%AE%89%E5%89%AF%E9%99%A2%E9%95%B7%E6%9D%8E%E4%BD%BE%E6%BD%94%E9%86%AB%E5%B8%AB/id1464335323?i=1000617772029