並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-40-%E7%88%B8%E5%AA%BD%E6%95%99%E6%88%91%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%8B-%E5%8F%B0%E8%AA%9E%E5%A0%B1%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E-%E4%BA%94%E6%98%9F%E6%88%B0%E5%B0%87/id1519025533?i=1000513994355